Curse

ll Jamie ll · Sep 17, 2009, 02:14 PM // 14:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArlanKels

EVERYTHING is annoying with the wrong build.
That doesn't mean we should nerf everything.

I guess annoying was the wrong word to use

although it fits perfectly.

Shasgaliel · Sep 17, 2009, 02:29 PM // 14:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by QueenofDeath

Oh I would love that one for rangers.

Sorry, but, you're thinking of archers instead of rangers when you say Bows ftw.

This GW not dnd or WOW or US marines. Ranger primary weapon here is a bow not dual wield swords, machine gun or whatever. All your experiences from XXXX has nothing to do with what was meant to be used as weapon by a given class in GW.

Quote:

Originally Posted by QueenofDeath

GW has never been politically correct when it comes to characters and their abilities anyway. Everywhere I go now practically all I ever see is A/? or ?/A and when you have that many A's in the game that means something is wrong with the class and overpowered that so many players want to use it.

Hopefully at least this update will end some of the ranger rediculousness of rangers and when they nerf SF to smithereens then too will A/? and ?/A become a thing of the past.

Since 2006-2007 I see mostly wammos everywhere both in pve/pvp would it mean that this particular set-up is overpowered? Anet please nerf mending/frenzy since it is being abused....

If pvp people are leaving and are disgusted because of R/A then it should be fixed. That is the only reason. Whether the fix is good we will see tomorrow. What is the point of arguing about it already?

Reformed · Sep 17, 2009, 02:33 PM // 14:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by QueenofDeath

Everywhere I go now practically all I ever see is A/? or ?/A and when you have that many A's in the game that means something is wrong with the class and overpowered that so many players want to use it.

I see Mo/ everywhere, clearly monks are overused and therefore must be removed from the game. They can start with Bergen Hot Springs

dusanyu · Sep 17, 2009, 03:43 PM // 15:43

Expect a Blanket fix and not a fix to the real problem

Karate Jesus · Sep 17, 2009, 03:56 PM // 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by dusanyu

Expect a Blanket fix and not a fix to the real problem

Well, like I said earlier, I'm really hoping they just make Escape end when you use an attack skill (which would nerf both R/A's and R/D's, without making them unplayable [read:Lightning Reflexes]).

However, with the recent history of nerfs, I'm sure they'll nerf something stupid like Death Blossom.

The other problem they're going to have is that WE Dagger Warrs could easily replace R/A's in the GvG meta with only a little loss in effectiveness (the blocking).

Martin Alvito · Sep 17, 2009, 03:57 PM // 15:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Life Bringing

When was the last time gws was "balanced"?

Across all formats? Factions. There have been times when various formats have reached steady states since then. GvG was in a steady state as of last fall, hence the massive elite buff and tiebreak change. Turns out that a small subset of the elite buffs were wildly OP and that changing the tiebreak change created at least as many problems as it solves.

(The better solution to the tiebreaker would have been to give two sides that draw a loss like in every other format to encourage aggressive play, then perma-ban anyone that griefs a top 16, but whatever.)

The only real issue with the OP elites was that it took them as long to fix them as it did. LC and RoJ were cheats for months. It's OK to make a mistake with an OP elite, it's just not OK to leave it that way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krill

People almost always want buffs, but not necessarily in the manor anet has been doing for the past 18 months or so. For example one suggestion I've heard a few times is lowering eviscerate to 7 adrenaline. That might get it back into the meta and while it would be power creep per se, it wouldn't be the sort of ridiculousness we've been receiving.

I should have been clearer; the relative weight of people screaming "NERF!f" against those requesting "buff!" shifts with whether or not there is balance. TBH, buffs are a back burner issue until we see the impact of today's changes. There's some baaaad OP stuff out there, and the impact of the needed nerfs should be observed before we decide what should be buffed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krill

Buffing skills basically forces people to use the new overpowered builds while many small nerfs would have a more unpredictable effect that might actually allow a variety of builds (a healthy meta) to evolve.

You do need both. The buffs introduce new ways to play (Mesmers use hexes again? ZOMG!). The nerfs scale back errors that are made. The effect of either type of change is always somewhat unpredictable. You're correct that a crazy OP buff is a lot more likely to create a degenerate meta than a Smiter's Boon nerf of a skill. You're also more correct in your thesis given the announcement that future changes will happen only every two months. That makes us put up with the effects of a terrible decision for longer and makes buffs more risky.

One can hope that bringing back playtesting will help sort out the probable effects of changes before they happen and prevent some of the most egregious balance errors.

My New Name · Sep 17, 2009, 04:06 PM // 16:06

when do the updates ussually happen i thought same time as z q change
or is it 1h after?

ll Jamie ll · Sep 17, 2009, 04:08 PM // 16:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

Well, like I said earlier, I'm really hoping they just make Escape end when you use an attack skill (which would nerf both R/A's and R/D's, without making them unplayable [read:Lightning Reflexes]).

However, with the recent history of nerfs, I'm sure they'll nerf something stupid like Death Blossom.

The other problem they're going to have is that WE Dagger Warrs could easily replace R/A's in the GvG meta with only a little loss in effectiveness (the blocking).

I agree with every point made here. Don't know if anyone agrees with your new description of Escape that your hoping for, but i sure do agree.

Also supporting a point made earlier about nerfing dagger skills because you see too much A/X or X/A. They should change the functionality of most dagger skills commonly used in builds like this, along with changing Escape.

(Nerfing to Oblivion shouldn't be the option)

Anon-e-mouse · Sep 17, 2009, 04:09 PM // 16:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

There's some baaaad OP stuff out there, and the impact of the needed nerfs should be observed before we decide what should be buffed.

For RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOs sake, will you people please learn and understand, YOU do NOT decide which skills should be buffed or nerfed, that's Anet's job, NOT yours.

ll Jamie ll · Sep 17, 2009, 04:11 PM // 16:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anon-e-mouse

For feck sake, will you people please learn and understand, YOU do NOT decide which skills should be buffed or nerfed, that's Anet's job, NOT yours.

It's also ANet's job to listen and consider our ideas and opinions.

Karate Jesus · Sep 17, 2009, 04:16 PM // 16:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anon-e-mouse

For feck sake, will you people please learn and understand, YOU do NOT decide which skills should be buffed or nerfed, that's Anet's job, NOT yours.

You're right, we don't. However, players are a big part of how/what they choose to nerf/buff.

That's the whole point of the new feedback space on GWW - namely that they can use our ideas legally.

However, to both agree and disagree with you, there are times when they don't listen to us at all. Look at HB. The large portion of the top HB players were trying to show Anet devs how and why HB was broken (i.e. naming all their characters something similar to "Nerf Shadowsteps", intentionally throwing matches over and over again, etc.) In the end, Anet didn't listen to them at all. Instead....they just decided to throw away HB....

Martin Alvito · Sep 17, 2009, 04:38 PM // 16:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anon-e-mouse

For feck sake, will you people please learn and understand, YOU do NOT decide which skills should be buffed or nerfed, that's Anet's job, NOT yours.

If there's one thing that ANet has been consistently good about, it's listening to the community for input on balance problems. Members of the community may not pull the trigger on changes, but community discussion (particularly elite GvG opinion) does significantly impact balance decisions.

The point I'm making is that we need to see the impact of today's nerfs before anyone could possibly form a reasoned opinion about what needs a buff.

Meridon · Sep 17, 2009, 04:51 PM // 16:51

They'd better not nerf my Escape because of some overpowered sin skills.

And if they do, they'd better not nerf my Escape for PvE too.

Jubb · Sep 17, 2009, 05:31 PM // 17:31

So, when does the update come?

slowerpoke · Sep 17, 2009, 05:36 PM // 17:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jubb

So, when does the update come?

upto 8hrs from now

i farm baddies · Sep 17, 2009, 06:00 PM // 18:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonnieBoi05

I lol'ed

On-topic: Thank god! No moar brain-dead faggotry R/As. Let's see crappy [rawr] get gold nao.

~LeNa~

you know they won 10 without r/a right

ArlanKels · Sep 17, 2009, 06:04 PM // 18:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meridon

They'd better not nerf my Escape because of some overpowered sin skills.

And if they do, they'd better not nerf my Escape for PvE too.

Most likely they'd seperate it into a PvE and PvP skill, with the PvP skill being nerfed.

bitchbar player · Sep 17, 2009, 06:45 PM // 18:45

only nerfing escape wont do a thing, ok they are a little bit easier to kill but the problem is the fast recharge of the attack chain combined with expertise. If the drop escape for another ims you still have the same trouble.

Karate Jesus · Sep 17, 2009, 07:02 PM // 19:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crom Bocca

only nerfing escape wont do a thing, ok they are a little bit easier to kill but the problem is the fast recharge of the attack chain combined with expertise. If the drop escape for another ims you still have the same trouble.

That's true, but Anet is notorious for not reverting skill buffs (even when they create shitstorms like this). What they should do is revert the dagger buffs, otherwise we'll just get W/A's again, R/A's with Natural Stride and Lightning Reflexes (freeing up an elite

), and possibly even more shitter-like builds.

But like I said, Anet doesn't normally revert their poor buffs, so I would assume that they'll just nerf Escape (and maybe LR) or they'll nerf Death Blossom.....both of which are poor ideas because the 1/4 cast attack skills will still be very usable and very OP.

Still Number One · Sep 17, 2009, 07:14 PM // 19:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

If there's one thing that ANet has been consistently bad at, it's listening to the community for input on balance problems.

Bold part is what I fixed for you.

It is true that there is a special forum where anet converses with selected individuals about game balancing issues, but if you listen to what those selected individuals say, anet rarely listens to them.

They do their best to push anet in the right direction and do a good job of making the updates less terrible than what they would be if anet never talked to them at all, but the reason we are in such a terrible state of balance is because anet doesn't listen to the community well enough. Not to mention I'm sure it is hard when you have people like Mitch pushing for one idea and Polly pushing for the opposite. Those players not being able to come to a consensus on what is right for the game as a whole, is a big reason why anet doesn't listen to anyone (there is no one definite opinion).

Linsey needs to basically spend the next half a year only making changes based off of what the respected members of the community tell her and not what she or other anet staff think sounds like a good change. Once they get an idea of which direction WE want the game to go, then they will be able to make better balance decisions.